A few days ago, members of the current 1L class - the most qualified class at the Law School in the history of the world, that is - received an email from Career Services Dean Kevin Donovan. The email contained a "heads-up" that OGI2k10 is on the horizon, and attached a very detailed "Handbook" on what students could expect.
Showing posts with label On Grounds Interview. Show all posts
Showing posts with label On Grounds Interview. Show all posts
Saturday, April 24, 2010
Saturday, April 17, 2010
Things We Wish We Had Known (An Open Thread)
Thursday, April 01, 2010
Fall 2010 OGIs "Doubtful"; Students Encouraged to Contact Employers Directly
EDITOR's NOTE: Yes this was an April Fools Joke. We apologize for freaking anyone out.
OGIs will likely not occur next year, at least not in the same way it has in year's past. That's the proverbial word on the street, at least. With so many firms following new NALP rules and new hiring plans, most won't be bothering to come to campus in the Fall. Rather, the new approach will have students directly contacting the vast-majority of the firms who formerly came to OGIs. We reached out today to Career Services, and they responded with this:
OGIs will likely not occur next year, at least not in the same way it has in year's past. That's the proverbial word on the street, at least. With so many firms following new NALP rules and new hiring plans, most won't be bothering to come to campus in the Fall. Rather, the new approach will have students directly contacting the vast-majority of the firms who formerly came to OGIs. We reached out today to Career Services, and they responded with this:
While we generally don't comment on matters such as this which have yet to be fully and completely resolved, it is, in fact, true that the OGIs will be a much smaller affair than in previous years. We are doubtful that many private firm employers will be in attendance, or many public interest employers for that matter, but we are still confident that the fall-interview program will be a good opportunity for those students who choose to take advantage of it.
How bad will OGIs be next year? Check it out below the fold:
Friday, March 05, 2010
ITP: We Give Our Unsolicited Advice About Journal Tryouts
Well, it's already week #2 of journal tryouts, but this when most students decide to it. Having already done it two years ago, we can confidently tell you what you're in for, and how to make the best of it. (Of course, if we were taking the journal tryouts, we wouldn't be allowed to say anything about it - even that it was hard - as one observer put it: it's a state secret that journal tryouts are hard - so say nothing or get thrown out of school!)Anyway, many of you heard us speak at the Unified Journal Tryout Information meeting, where we attempted to lay down some serious wisdom for the 1Ls. Mostly, we were just snickered at - but that's fine. Einstein was laughed at too. For those who actually want advice, though, consider the following no-nonsense tips (you can also check our advice from last year):
(1) Most secondary journals value the bluebooking part much more highly
No secret here. I can tell you that, historically, there are at least some of them where the essay is more-or-less of a tie-breaker. Don't think you're going to be in the top 15 essays / bluebooking of the entire school. Then don't sweat the essay too much - spend a solid day getting the bluebooking part as perfect as you can make it, then read the materials and just spend as much time as you can putting an essay together that is marginally coherent.
(2) Being on a secondary journal helps
Especially if you looking to score one of those fancy firm jobs through that OGI think, being on a journal can be the difference between getting pre-selected and . . . not. It also gives you something to talk about with the interviewer if you are an otherwise boring candidate (as we were).
Oh, FYI, EITE it's not journal or moot court, but journal and moot court. But you all already knew that. Don't get us wrong - there some scam element in journals / journal tryouts, and a lot of the time participating feels like being punched in the gut. But other times, like when you're kicking back some cold ones and pwning at shuffleboard at your journal's happy hour, or you see your name on that the front page of that glossy, bound, non-peer reviewed publication . . . it's all alright.
(3) But it doesn't really matter which one!
No, you will not get more respect from anyone for being on VJIL or Law and Politics than for being on VaSE. We believe that the resume boost is roughly the same.
This of course goes out the window if you can get on to the Va. L. Rev. In that case, you will get mad respect from everyone, including us.
(4) However, the secondary Journals are different
One of the secondary journals publishes six times a year - that's a lot of cite checking. Some others only publish 1-2 times a year. You should think about this, particularly as cite-checking can be kind of time consuming and what really matters is your grades.
Also, some journals have better softball teams than others. Some have better offices. Some have better happy hours.
(5) Don't kill yourself this weekend
Try your best, but remember there are diminishing marginal returns. Take time to eat healthy, to exercise, to watch college basketball, and imbibe lots of protein and beer.
Next time: we offer our unsolicited advice on how not to fail the MPRE. Studying may or may not help . . .
Previously:
For $5,000 I WILL Get You on Law Review
All Journal Tryouts, All the Time
Related:
Journal Tryouts, Or How I Learned to Stopy Enjoying Life and Love Getting Kicked in the Junk [Law Weekly]
Journal Tryouts are the Biggest Scam in Law School [Feb Club is Why Daddy Left]
Monday, February 15, 2010
Law Weekly on Jobs, Pt. 2: "Third Years Adjust to Changing Market"
Last Friday, the Law Weekly came out with its second article in a series of three articles on the whole "jobs situation" at the law school. This article - as the title suggests - looked at the situation from a student perspective:
Although the numbers are still unknown, there is a sense that a significant portion of third-years are still looking for work. “I know so many qualified people in our class who do not have jobs lined up,” remarked a female third-year who asked to remain anonymous, “either because the market tightened up so much during our OGIs or because their firms had a bad offer rate.”
Some students were optimistic, however:
While a severe recession is challenging at best, some students have found a silver lining. Because many students are now unable to secure a position with larger firms, they are free to explore options they might never have thought of. As one third-year male speaking on the condition of anonymity observed, “So many people don’t like firms and get burned out after a few years; I almost feel like the job market is saving people the unpleasantness of working two or three years in a job they hate.”
In the past, though, substantial debt led many students to large firms without much consideration for alternatives. “I’ve looked back to why I came to law school in the first place,” remarked Fiske. “It was really tough to ignore the six-figure salaries that were pretty much guaranteed to our class. But when those jobs shrunk, it forced me to re-examine why I was here. I’m much happier and more comfortable knowing that I’m going to be doing something I want to do, not doing something primarily for the money.” From that perspective, the economic recession has created a shortcut for some law students to their desired career path.
For third-year Logan Marguiles, the economy opened up the kind of opportunity most Call of Duty enthusiasts dream about. He will be working at Riot Games, which he describes as an “independent [start-up PC] game developer and publisher in Los Angeles,” in a role that is “part business development and part legal.”
. . .
Another third-year, who asked to remain anonymous, is “contemplating a return to my former career, journalism, while waiting for things to turn around in the legal economy.” He remarked that while he has not been able to find employment in the legal field, law school has taught him more about what reporters should cover.
There was also a bit (which we contributed to) on debt and new federal program, which relates to our most recent post:
Alternative careers present an interesting option for third-years, but the issue of repaying debt looms large for law graduates in any field. A student with $160,000 in debt, with the Federal Stafford Rate of 6.8 percent interest, will end up paying about $1,840 per month if she is on the default 10-year repayment plan. Altogether, that student would pay nearly $221,000.
Some third-years hope to benefit from the federal Income Based Repayment Plan, a new option for student loans. The Plan uses a sliding scale to determine what percentage of income goes to loans. For most, the payment is around 10 percent of total income. Interest is only covered in some cases, but debt is forgiven after 25 years. For a student with $160,000 of debt, making around $50,000 per year, the monthly payment would be about $420.
For students interested in public service, in addition to UVA’s own Loan Repayment Assistance Programs (“LRAP”), Public Service Loan Forgiveness is a new federal program for students working in public service jobs. This program also reduces monthly payments, and will forgive debt after 10 years. As the Law Weekly reported last fall, the LRAP program is currently being “re-tooled” in ways that will make it “more generous than the current [program].”
Related:
Third Years Adjust to Changing Market [Law Weekly]
Previously:
How Will UVA's LRAP Follow Income Based Repayment?
Third Years Adjust to Changing Market [Law Weekly]
Previously:
How Will UVA's LRAP Follow Income Based Repayment?
Monday, February 08, 2010
Law Weekly: "Students Challenged in Search for Jobs"
The Law Weekly is doing a series of three articles on the job situation for UVA Law students. We contributed to the first article, which came out this week:
EDIT: Dean Donovan also discussed the article in the password protected Firm Footing blog, which is accessible via email sent to students.
. . . A relatively sizeable proportion of the Class of 2010 have faced an uphill struggle. Many who sought one of the coveted “summer associateships” at a large firm for the summer after their second year were unsuccessful, both through their On-Grounds Interview (OGI) attempts and otherwise. As the Law Weekly reported last year, the depths of the economy were still being discovered during OGIs in 2008, leaving many students grappling for a job and even more frustrated with Career Services.Of the students who were lucky enough to land associateships, many found that they did not develop into full-time offers, something that had been all but guaranteed in previous years. The result is that a greater number of third-year students than in years past still do not know what they will do when they graduate in less than four months.
Friday, November 13, 2009
OPEN THREAD: 2Ls and OGI - Checking In
"Of course, these callback lunches are mostly a formality, Michael. We've already decided not to give you an offer."So Fall OCI and Callbacks season for 2Ls looking to go to a national law firm has come and gone. How'd it go? Were things actually has bad as everyone was predicting, or did most people who wanted to work at a firm come away from the process with at least one offer? We're interested in compiling some informal data on the subject, so 2Ls, please answer our poll (below), and tell your story in the comments. Did you get what expected out of the process? Did you find career services to be useful? What, if anything, would you do differently?
For those who have come up empty-handed so far, you have our sympathies. Find us around and UVA Law Blog will buy you a glass of the finest, cheapest beer in the land, or failing that take you on a trip through the lackluster KFC buffet. There are many paths to success though, so look into public interest stuff and start applying for grants early. (Even if you missed PILA's fall application deadline you'll still be able to apply again in the Spring).
Monday, September 21, 2009
OPEN THREAD: How's It Going Out There? (Revisted)
With OGI Part Deux beginning this week, and many people done with their callbacks from round I, it's time to check in:
Please use the comments section to discuss below - anonymously if you wish. Please also indicate what, if anything, you'd like to see improved or changed about our OGI coverage.
Our apologies for such a quick post and the general lack of posting - we're currently in moot court hell, and won't ascend for another two weeks - - but hey, if you're going Weds. night, you just might have us as a judge. Is there any rule against live-blogging the proceedings?
Please use the comments section to discuss below - anonymously if you wish. Please also indicate what, if anything, you'd like to see improved or changed about our OGI coverage.
Our apologies for such a quick post and the general lack of posting - we're currently in moot court hell, and won't ascend for another two weeks - - but hey, if you're going Weds. night, you just might have us as a judge. Is there any rule against live-blogging the proceedings?
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
LIVEBLOG: When OGI Fails, Then What?
Editor's Note: We're here at the Career Services talk titled "Post OGI Strategy Session" . . . since it's the day before Moot Court briefs are due (eep!). For convenience, we divided the short talk into several categories.
Network Network Network
Donovan: "We didn't mean to schedule this at the same time as Moot Court . . . feel free to come talk to us to schedule an individual OGI-search plan.
Don't get down if you have not gotten a significant yield from OGI; you are not alone.
First, take note of the resume collections on Symplicity. People have gotten jobs from these in the past, and we think it is a higher yield than just sending out letters.
Second, there's networking. . ."
Lawson: "Networking is sort of a buzzword - you want to meet as many attorneys in the geographic market that you're looking as you can."
Check the alumni listing on LawWeb - contact these people and see if you can schedule an informal, informational interview. Try to make connections where you might not otherwise have one; these people are more than willing to help.
Donovan: "The more information you can give these folks up front, the better . . . these people are more like your allies than people you are applying for a job."
"You have to have a little bit of a thick skin; some of these people are extraordinarily busy, and you might not get a response right away."
The idea is to get advice from older lawyers - and "this is an important piece, at least good or probably better than sending out a hundred letters or cold calling."
The Post OGI Mass-Mail
Donovan: Focus on smaller firms, broader geographically. The best way is through email with an attached cover letter in .pdf and resume in .pdf.
"For the firms you feel like are target firms, don't do a mail merge . . . my sense is . . . you should try to personalize those firms."
Lawson: "If you already have plans for fall break, and you're going to be where the firm is - mention that in your cover letter . . . make it as easy as you can to be the most accessible again.
Holding Pattern:
Donovan: If you're in a holding pattern - it's a good idea to reach out, and say that you're still interested.
September OGI
Donovan: Not that many interviewers, and only four with open slots - but if you're interested in the firm "I would make a special request, it shows the employer you are interested."
Lawson: "Remember that this summer is not necessarily where you want to end up . . . you'll have more opportunities after graduation.
Donovan: There is a lot of ways that this could go - the economy seems on the uptick "and there could be major 3L hiring next year" as a result.
"We are following up with the employers that canceled at OGI, and will let you know which of them will be interviewing in the spring."
Encourages scheduling a meeting - can help you 1 on 1.
And that's it folks - good luck (with jobs and with moot court)
Network Network Network
Donovan: "We didn't mean to schedule this at the same time as Moot Court . . . feel free to come talk to us to schedule an individual OGI-search plan.
Don't get down if you have not gotten a significant yield from OGI; you are not alone.
First, take note of the resume collections on Symplicity. People have gotten jobs from these in the past, and we think it is a higher yield than just sending out letters.
Second, there's networking. . ."
Lawson: "Networking is sort of a buzzword - you want to meet as many attorneys in the geographic market that you're looking as you can."
Check the alumni listing on LawWeb - contact these people and see if you can schedule an informal, informational interview. Try to make connections where you might not otherwise have one; these people are more than willing to help.
Donovan: "The more information you can give these folks up front, the better . . . these people are more like your allies than people you are applying for a job."
"You have to have a little bit of a thick skin; some of these people are extraordinarily busy, and you might not get a response right away."
The idea is to get advice from older lawyers - and "this is an important piece, at least good or probably better than sending out a hundred letters or cold calling."
The Post OGI Mass-Mail
Donovan: Focus on smaller firms, broader geographically. The best way is through email with an attached cover letter in .pdf and resume in .pdf.
"For the firms you feel like are target firms, don't do a mail merge . . . my sense is . . . you should try to personalize those firms."
Lawson: "If you already have plans for fall break, and you're going to be where the firm is - mention that in your cover letter . . . make it as easy as you can to be the most accessible again.
Holding Pattern:
Donovan: If you're in a holding pattern - it's a good idea to reach out, and say that you're still interested.
September OGI
Donovan: Not that many interviewers, and only four with open slots - but if you're interested in the firm "I would make a special request, it shows the employer you are interested."
Lawson: "Remember that this summer is not necessarily where you want to end up . . . you'll have more opportunities after graduation.
Donovan: There is a lot of ways that this could go - the economy seems on the uptick "and there could be major 3L hiring next year" as a result.
"We are following up with the employers that canceled at OGI, and will let you know which of them will be interviewing in the spring."
Encourages scheduling a meeting - can help you 1 on 1.
And that's it folks - good luck (with jobs and with moot court)
Thursday, September 10, 2009
CALLBACKS STICKY
You know how it works - post the firm, location, and status (callback offered / denied). We'll keep this thread at the top, and update it continuously. Thanks, and good luck. (EDIT: We make no guarantees about the accuracy of these reports, as we rely heavily on anonymous, unverifiable reporting. And also remember, just because a firm has *started* offering call backs doesn't mean that they have finished . . .)
If you get a callback, you'll be leaving CHO on one of these. Wooo.
Employers Who Have Extended Callbacks:
Akin Gump (DC)
Arnall Golden Gregory
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Baker Botts (Houston, Austin)
Baker Hostettler (Cleveland, Houston, DC)
Baker & McKenzie (NYC, DC)
Bernstein Shur
Bingham McCutchen (DC, Boston)
Boies Schiller (NY, DC)
Bracewell & Giuliani (NYC, Houston)
Buckly Sandler
Cadwalader (NY, DC)
Carington Coleman (Dallas)
Chardborne (DC)
Clifford Chance (DC)
Cooley Godward (DC, VA)
Covington & Burling (DC,NY)
Cozen O'Connor
Crowell & Morning (DC)
Cozen O'Connor (Philadelphia)
Davis, Polk & Wardwell (NY)
Debevoise & Plimpton (NY)
Dechert (DC)
Dewey & LeBouff (NYC)
Dickstein Shapiro (DC)
Freshfields (United Kingdom)
If you get a callback, you'll be leaving CHO on one of these. Wooo.Employers Who Have Extended Callbacks:
Akin Gump (DC)
Arnall Golden Gregory
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Baker Botts (Houston, Austin)
Baker Hostettler (Cleveland, Houston, DC)
Baker & McKenzie (NYC, DC)
Bernstein Shur
Bingham McCutchen (DC, Boston)
Boies Schiller (NY, DC)
Bracewell & Giuliani (NYC, Houston)
Buckly Sandler
Cadwalader (NY, DC)
Carington Coleman (Dallas)
Chardborne (DC)
Clifford Chance (DC)
Cooley Godward (DC, VA)
Covington & Burling (DC,NY)
Cozen O'Connor
Crowell & Morning (DC)
Cozen O'Connor (Philadelphia)
Davis, Polk & Wardwell (NY)
Debevoise & Plimpton (NY)
Dechert (DC)
Dewey & LeBouff (NYC)
Dickstein Shapiro (DC)
Freshfields (United Kingdom)
Finnegan
Foaley Hoag (Boston)
Foaley Hoag (Boston)
Foley & Lardner
Fenwick & West
Fried Frank (DC)
Frost Brown Todd
Fulbright & Jaworski (DC, NYC)
Gilbert
Goodwin Procter (DC, Palo Alto)
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC)
Haynes & Boone (Houston)
Hirschler Fleischer (Richmond)
Hogan & Hartson (McLean, DC)
Holland & Knight (Chicago)
Howrey (Chicago, DC)
Hughes Hubbard
Hunton & Williams (Richmond)
Jackson Walker (Austin, Houston)
Jenner & Block (Chicago)
Jones Day (DC, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta)
Kasowitz (NYC)
Kattin Muchin (Chicago)
Knobb (San Diego)
Keller Heckman
Kelley Drye (DC)
Kilpatrick Stockton (Atlanta)
King & Spalding (DC, Atlanta)
Kirkland (Chicago)
K&L Gates (Seattle)
Latham & Watkins (NY, LA)
LeClair Ryan
Linklaters (UK)
McDermott (DC)
McGuire Woods (Richmond)
Miles & Stockbridge
Morris Nichols
Morrison Forrester (VA, SF)
Nelson Mullins (DC)
Nixon Peabody
OMM (DC)
Patton Boggs (DC)
Paul, Weiss (DC)
Paul Hastings (San Diego, Chicago)'
Pillsbury Winthrop (DC, NYC)
Potter Anderson
Proskauer Rose (NYC)
Reed Smith (DC, Chicago)
Robins Kaplan (Minneapolis)
Ropes & Gray
Scott & Hardin (Chicago)
Schiff Hardin (Chicago)
Shearman & Sterling (NYC)
Simpson Thacher (DC, NY)
Skadden Arps (DC, NY, Chicago)
Steptoe & Johnson (DC)
Sullivan & Cromwell (DC, NY)
Sutherland (Atlanta)
Troutman Sanders (Atlanta)
Vinson & Elkins (DC, Houston, Austin)
Vorys, Sater, Seymour & Pease (Cleveland)
Weil, Gotshal & Manges (NY, DC)
White & Case (DC, NY)
Wildman Harold (Chicago)
Wiley Rein (DC)
Wilkie Farr (DC, NYC)
Williams & Connolly (DC)
WilmerHale (Boston, DC)
Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
Winston Strawn (Chicago, DC)
Withers Begman (CT)
Wyche, Burgess (South Carolina)
Fenwick & West
Fried Frank (DC)
Frost Brown Todd
Fulbright & Jaworski (DC, NYC)
Gilbert
Goodwin Procter (DC, Palo Alto)
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher (DC)
Haynes & Boone (Houston)
Hirschler Fleischer (Richmond)
Hogan & Hartson (McLean, DC)
Holland & Knight (Chicago)
Howrey (Chicago, DC)
Hughes Hubbard
Hunton & Williams (Richmond)
Jackson Walker (Austin, Houston)
Jenner & Block (Chicago)
Jones Day (DC, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta)
Kasowitz (NYC)
Kattin Muchin (Chicago)
Knobb (San Diego)
Keller Heckman
Kelley Drye (DC)
Kilpatrick Stockton (Atlanta)
King & Spalding (DC, Atlanta)
Kirkland (Chicago)
K&L Gates (Seattle)
Latham & Watkins (NY, LA)
LeClair Ryan
Linklaters (UK)
McDermott (DC)
McGuire Woods (Richmond)
Miles & Stockbridge
Morris Nichols
Morrison Forrester (VA, SF)
Nelson Mullins (DC)
Nixon Peabody
OMM (DC)
Patton Boggs (DC)
Paul, Weiss (DC)
Paul Hastings (San Diego, Chicago)'
Pillsbury Winthrop (DC, NYC)
Potter Anderson
Proskauer Rose (NYC)
Reed Smith (DC, Chicago)
Robins Kaplan (Minneapolis)
Ropes & Gray
Scott & Hardin (Chicago)
Schiff Hardin (Chicago)
Shearman & Sterling (NYC)
Simpson Thacher (DC, NY)
Skadden Arps (DC, NY, Chicago)
Steptoe & Johnson (DC)
Sullivan & Cromwell (DC, NY)
Sutherland (Atlanta)
Troutman Sanders (Atlanta)
Vinson & Elkins (DC, Houston, Austin)
Vorys, Sater, Seymour & Pease (Cleveland)
Weil, Gotshal & Manges (NY, DC)
White & Case (DC, NY)
Wildman Harold (Chicago)
Wiley Rein (DC)
Wilkie Farr (DC, NYC)
Williams & Connolly (DC)
WilmerHale (Boston, DC)
Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
Winston Strawn (Chicago, DC)
Withers Begman (CT)
Wyche, Burgess (South Carolina)
Thursday, August 27, 2009
Thursday, Bloody Thursday
We poured out some beer on the Spies Garden lawn just now.A few articles on Above the Law - and talks with a few classmates - confirm that this past week has been a particularly bad one for 3L's who spent their summer at a firm and were waiting to hear back from them.
Many 3Ls got the "thanks-but-no-thanks" call this week (and some - as our poll reported - received such notifications much earlier). We know that the Law Weekly is doing some in depth coverage on this and will be able to get some of the specifics. In the meantime, feel free to use this post to share your thoughts / anger / sympathy on the subject.
Tomorrow, Career Services is having a talk (12PM, WB 154) on how to ace your callbacks. Certainly a useful topic for those who are lucky enough to have them. We hope that Career Services will hold a session to help the many, many 3Ls who were no-offered by their summer firm - or at least pour out a large 40 in Slaughter for the fallen.
Previously:
One for the 3L's
Monday, August 10, 2009
One for the 3Ls
By request:
OGIs start this week - which historically is the 2L's time to shine. But they've had a chance to vet their anxieties, and no doubt we will return to their travails.
This post is for the 3Ls. OGIs last year were no cakewalk, either. As has been well documented, a lot of students wanted jobs with law firms, and didn't get them.
But for (very fortunate) students who got an offer, that was just the beginning. Many (if not most) had the lengths of their programs shortened, their pay cut, or both. No matter, because most of these people counted themselves lucky just be working for a firm and drawing any kind of pay at all.
It's tough for veterans to get back in the game, but it's not impossible
Then, the main problem became actually getting the offer. In past years, firms gave offer rates at or near 100% (check the nalpdirectory for reported offer rates). Last year, of course, that began to change: some firms only gave half of their summers offers of fulltime employment, and this year, many predicted that things were going to be much worse. (But again, at least these people got paid a princely some for their summer work - many students went completely pro bono, as once-ample funding for public interest work was more difficult to come by this year).
What happened? At least some firms continued to have offer rates at or close to 100%. But certainly not all of them. Indeed, many firms are waiting until Labor Day or even later to tell the 2Ls who spent the summer with them whether or not they will have a place there at (or, in reality, some months or even a year after) graduation.
Another interesting EITE-twist is that in previous years some law firms used to give out what were called "soft" or "cold" offers. Essentially, the firm would say something like, "We really don't think this is the right place for you, but for purposes of finding a job, you can say that we gave you an offer." The problem is - ITE - would other employers take serious the idea that a third year student who actually has an offer from a law firm wouldn't take it? (Or, alternatively, would the firm be afraid that the student might actually try to accept the cold/soft offer for lack of better options?) On the other hand, a cold offer is better than nothing, and even if a firm gives you a flat out "no", we have to believe that ITE people would understand that it is because of, well, ITE, rather than you being a total screwup.
This of course will create a bit of a bottleneck at OGIs. Many 3Ls are interviewing - to the extent that they could get interviews - because they are waiting to hear back from their 2L firm. Hard to fault anyone there. Of course, the 3L OGI interview market has never been particuarly robust, and at least one commenter who is (masquarading as) coming to OGI thinks this year will be much worse:
OGIs start this week - which historically is the 2L's time to shine. But they've had a chance to vet their anxieties, and no doubt we will return to their travails.
This post is for the 3Ls. OGIs last year were no cakewalk, either. As has been well documented, a lot of students wanted jobs with law firms, and didn't get them.
But for (very fortunate) students who got an offer, that was just the beginning. Many (if not most) had the lengths of their programs shortened, their pay cut, or both. No matter, because most of these people counted themselves lucky just be working for a firm and drawing any kind of pay at all.
It's tough for veterans to get back in the game, but it's not impossibleThen, the main problem became actually getting the offer. In past years, firms gave offer rates at or near 100% (check the nalpdirectory for reported offer rates). Last year, of course, that began to change: some firms only gave half of their summers offers of fulltime employment, and this year, many predicted that things were going to be much worse. (But again, at least these people got paid a princely some for their summer work - many students went completely pro bono, as once-ample funding for public interest work was more difficult to come by this year).
What happened? At least some firms continued to have offer rates at or close to 100%. But certainly not all of them. Indeed, many firms are waiting until Labor Day or even later to tell the 2Ls who spent the summer with them whether or not they will have a place there at (or, in reality, some months or even a year after) graduation.
Another interesting EITE-twist is that in previous years some law firms used to give out what were called "soft" or "cold" offers. Essentially, the firm would say something like, "We really don't think this is the right place for you, but for purposes of finding a job, you can say that we gave you an offer." The problem is - ITE - would other employers take serious the idea that a third year student who actually has an offer from a law firm wouldn't take it? (Or, alternatively, would the firm be afraid that the student might actually try to accept the cold/soft offer for lack of better options?) On the other hand, a cold offer is better than nothing, and even if a firm gives you a flat out "no", we have to believe that ITE people would understand that it is because of, well, ITE, rather than you being a total screwup.
This of course will create a bit of a bottleneck at OGIs. Many 3Ls are interviewing - to the extent that they could get interviews - because they are waiting to hear back from their 2L firm. Hard to fault anyone there. Of course, the 3L OGI interview market has never been particuarly robust, and at least one commenter who is (masquarading as) coming to OGI thinks this year will be much worse:
First, we weren't making any 3L offers last year. Nothing will change this year. Sorry, sort of. How'd you manage not to have a job after 2L summer??3Ls, how's it going? Please take our poll, and share you experiences in the comments, anonymously if you wish.
Second, this 50/50 lottery thing is a waste of our time. No, your 3.whatever GPA isn't going to be overcome by your personality/ethnicity/gender/orientation/work experience/undergrad prestige or GPA. We always have a pretty hard cut off, and this year it is looking a lot more like the Berlin wall than just a suggestion from the hiring partners back in the office.
So, all this expanded lottery system means that 50% of the time, we'll have to just sit there for 15-20 minutes, try to keep it moving, and maybe give you tips about how to get a job at another firm. On the plus side, some of y'all are fun to talk to (much better than HLS), which makes it better than our average day at work. Doesn't mean you get one of our limited call back slots, but we will enjoy your company.
Third, as just noted, call backs will be fewer and further between--and your chance to get an offer before the class fills up will be gone by mid September. Those of you good enough and/or lucky enough to get a call back should be all over it like a PA on a pair of drunk 1L twins.
Finally, good luck. "Relax, this is UVa and we're all getting jobs" was three years ago.
Saturday, August 01, 2009
OPEN THREAD: OGI off to a Rough Start?
Michael Vick didn't get any preselects, but he's still holding out for some lottery wins.Yesterday, students who are participating in OGIs found out for the first time which interviews they had received. Since then, we've gotten a fair amount of information that indicates that at least some students are unhappy with the number of interviews they got.
It seems like some people, at least, are unhappy with the quantity of interviews that they got. We have reports of 2Ls receiving less than 10 interviews. A tipster pointed us to this post on the autoadmit message board thread on "UVA OCI" - we hope it's not indicative of what is happening with most people (the usual disclaimers about autoadmit apply - we don't endorse anything on the site, much of it is NSFW, and it probably shouldn't be visted by anyone for any reason, ever.):
Date: July 31st, 2009 10:00 AM
Author: .....,,,,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.
Subject: Oh the humanity.....
Interview schedules are out and it is brutal.... how brutal?
Dead on median, only 6 interviews, all lottery picks, no preselection
*killself*
It's probably not *that* bad, but as career services has been saying, a lot of people are going to have to look outside of OGI to find summer employment. Ditto goes for 3Ls who signed up for OGIs, where the situation looks to be even worse (we know of some 3Ls who got zero lottery interviews, and zero preselects as well). Of course, people who are unhappy are probably going to be most vocal at this stage, so perhaps it doesn't make sense to infer anything larger at this point . . .
How'd it go for you? Are you satisfied with the interviews you got? Feel free to sound off - anonymously if you wish - in the comments. There's also a poll for you (edit: poll not working, check back later).
We also got some queries about "strategy" - what interviews should you accept and which should you decline. This is from a while ago, and presupposes that you have more than 25 interviews (which, as noted above, is not the case for everyone even with the switch to a more lottery-based system) . . . anyway, here's some hopefully-not-too-dated take it or leave it advice:
How'd it go for you? Are you satisfied with the interviews you got? Feel free to sound off - anonymously if you wish - in the comments. There's also a poll for you (edit: poll not working, check back later).
We also got some queries about "strategy" - what interviews should you accept and which should you decline. This is from a while ago, and presupposes that you have more than 25 interviews (which, as noted above, is not the case for everyone even with the switch to a more lottery-based system) . . . anyway, here's some hopefully-not-too-dated take it or leave it advice:
First, you should do every interview you can, up to the maximum 25. We know people who were told "You don't need to take all 25 interviews" last fall. That turned out to be bad advice for those people. If you get more than 25 interviews, your primary focus should be "where do I stand a good chance of getting hired." And we're not the only ones who think so.Of course, it should be noted here that no one at UVA Law Blog is a Hiring Partner, or even a practicing attorney. But we (all) are students who have been through this process before. (even though "all bets are off" in 2009 - so we keep hearing). Hence the "take it or leave it." Anyway, hang in there everyone. It's almost time to go back to Charlottesville!
Of course, this doesn't mean that you should interview at a place you wouldn't want to work or isn't suited to your interests (i.e., if you're a big IP guy don't go to a place where don't have any IP), but it does mean that you should strongly consider a firm's hiring criteria before accepting an interview there. Just to be clear - we're *not* saying that you shouldn't consider practice group, fit, and especially location (actually, that's a big part of getting hired - we would not recommend applying to any far-flung geographic areas to which you lack connections, as the odds will be against you). What we are saying is that those factors - to the extent they are distinguishable - should be secondary to crafting an intelligent strategy that results in you getting at least one offer. After that, they can become your bread & butter . . .
Example: if you are below the median, it is probably waste of everyone's time for you take that lottery interview you got at Cravath (or insert a firm that has very selective hiring criteria here). Let us explain, briefly, why this is potentially bad for everyone:The potential beauty of switching to a system that is more lottery-based is that interviews are allocated based on student interest; however, that's only going to be effective if students make intelligent choices. In this (arbitrary) example, there are plenty of other firms in Manhattan that do work that is similar that would be a better fit (read: more likely to extend this applicant a callback and thus a better use of a bid) then the one mentioned. (Aside: To help make this process a more informed one, UVA should publish information about the average GPA for students given a callback and offer, by firm).
- The odds of you getting a job there are very slim.
- You could be interviewing somewhere else where your odds would be much better.
- You're taking away a slot from one of your classmates who does have a better chance at getting a job there.
- The interviewer may consider the interview to be a waste of his time once he sees your grades, which, if you attached your transcript to your OGI bid as was reccomended this year, will happen before the interview.
Tuesday, July 14, 2009
2009 OGI: You Don't Have to Go Home, But You Can't Stay Here?
Hope everyone who is doing OGI got their bids in. This one could be a tough one, with some firms that used to not interviewing on grounds, but we're UVA, so we'll all pull through, one way or another.
In related news, it looks like UVA Career Services has some new staff. Kevin Donovan, formerly of Morgan Lewis, joins the Law School as the new Senior Assistant Dean for Career Services. This new hire comes after (or maybe before, we're not sure when he started) the Law Weekly shed some light on the lean staffing of Law School's Career Services. We thinks it's good that Career Services is being proactive, and hope that Mr. Donovan will be able to help students cope with the difficult economic situation by . . . helping them get jobs.
In case you're wondering if Mr. Donovan can hook some rising UVA 2Ls up at his old firm, the answer is probably not, at least not now: Morgan Lewis is not hiring at UVA this year, or at any law school, for that matter. They are the first of what we fear may be many law firms who will reduce the size of their summer program down to zero.
Everyone hang in there; these are tough times, but it is summer after all. The best part of summer.
Sunday, July 05, 2009
7月4日隨即的事情：Happy Fourth of July (But Sadly that Means Summer is More Than 1/2 Over)
Checking back in here, I hope everyone had a good fourth of July. Hopefull there was grilling and fireworks involved, and if not that at least a chance to try to start a "USA, USA, USA" chant. But it's good to note that even in [the large urban cosmopolitan island metroplex we reside in that will remain forever nameless] people can put aside their petty disagreements and agree that America rocks. Wooooo.
＊ What is with this course enrollment thing? So we got a *pdf in the mail; that's great, but it's much more difficult to use than the online listings on lawweb that they had last year. Anyone know where we can go to read the descriptions? ("Current Courses" does not seem to be working, at least not for us.)
＊ If there's no such thing as bad publicity . . . FACT: UVA has been on AboveTheLaw more than any other law school recently. Sometimes for cool things about our students and events (and libel show) Other times for not so cool things (all depending on your views I guess). But in the end, isn't this just more evidence that we are America's coolest law school? Probably.
(NB: Our method of calculating this was rather informal, and a lot depends, among other things, on how one defines "recently" and "on" . . .)
＊ Deadline to get your "bids" in for OGI is July 9th. So get them in. What about strategy? Well, Hiring Partner Advice Blog (a great resource for . . . getting a job) has borrowed from us before, so we're going to borrow from them:
Hard advice, indeed, but better safe than sorry . . . Of course that much isn't news to any law student. In terms of your bids, you should make them intelligently and focus on firms that you have a realistic shot at . . . arbitrarily, I wouldn't waste more than one or two of your top-ranks at firms that would be considered "reaches" for you, as in this economy their criteria is likely to be even stiffer.
We would say this, also, for whatever our advice is worth (probably not much) - for any interviews you do get, see what you can do to talk to a current 3L or graduated student about the firm. I.e. get a sense of what the summer was like, what kind of work the firm focuses on, the "culture" of the firm, etc. Of course, this won't help you get a lottery (or prescreened, for that matter) interview, but it should give you some things to talk / ask questions about in the interview itself.
＊ For some real advice, Cadwalader has an entire section of their newly designed website dedicated to helping students at OCI, including advice on resumes, screening interviews, and callbacks.
＊ These UVA law students like helping people.
＊ What is with this course enrollment thing? So we got a *pdf in the mail; that's great, but it's much more difficult to use than the online listings on lawweb that they had last year. Anyone know where we can go to read the descriptions? ("Current Courses" does not seem to be working, at least not for us.)
＊ If there's no such thing as bad publicity . . . FACT: UVA has been on AboveTheLaw more than any other law school recently. Sometimes for cool things about our students and events (and libel show) Other times for not so cool things (all depending on your views I guess). But in the end, isn't this just more evidence that we are America's coolest law school? Probably.
(NB: Our method of calculating this was rather informal, and a lot depends, among other things, on how one defines "recently" and "on" . . .)
＊ Deadline to get your "bids" in for OGI is July 9th. So get them in. What about strategy? Well, Hiring Partner Advice Blog (a great resource for . . . getting a job) has borrowed from us before, so we're going to borrow from them:
Hence, my answer to "how do you rank is?"..... are you crazy? I would rank the firms by "where the hell might I get a job?" This is not a law student/associate market. Did you miss that? I'm sorry, but those days are over. Hopefully, the firms going on campus in fact have slots to fill and hopefully they are being very careful with their numbers. I know hiring partners and recruiting staff who have already called law schools (yes, even top 25 law schools) and indicated they are not coming on campus this fall. So, if you've got firms coming on campus, I presume they have some slots to fill. And, at the end of the day, if you wind up with multiple offers, then great for you. At that point (when you have offers), I would start the "ranking" process -- where do I feel comfortable, what is the firm's reputation in the area (for possible movement later, for instance), what do legal and other news say about the firm? This is when we would consider lay offs. For me, if it is a choice between a lay-off firm and one that hasn't done layoffs, I think I would lean toward the non-layoff firms, but you need to do some homework - how are the departments staffed, do they seem overstaffed? How did the associates seem, did morale seem good? Perhaps you can talk to someone who spent the summer there this past summer. Do your homework. But that is when you have an offer.At this point, before you have an offer, go fishing. Throw that net out far and wide. The days of the law firm world as your oyster are over. Ranking will be for after the offer. Take the interviews you get and go in with a positive attitude to all - even if maybe it's not your first choice -- it may be your only choice. Sorry to be harsh, but that is the way of the law firm market today.
We would say this, also, for whatever our advice is worth (probably not much) - for any interviews you do get, see what you can do to talk to a current 3L or graduated student about the firm. I.e. get a sense of what the summer was like, what kind of work the firm focuses on, the "culture" of the firm, etc. Of course, this won't help you get a lottery (or prescreened, for that matter) interview, but it should give you some things to talk / ask questions about in the interview itself.
＊ For some real advice, Cadwalader has an entire section of their newly designed website dedicated to helping students at OCI, including advice on resumes, screening interviews, and callbacks.
＊ These UVA law students like helping people.
Sunday, June 14, 2009
A Midsummers Night's Update; Or, The Time Has Come to Talk of Many Things
But wait a bit before we have our chat - - - We hope everything is going well out there; for those at firms we hope that you've had some time away from the office to enjoy your perspective cities and are getting to do some substantive work as well, for those do-gooders at public interest places we hope that all of you have a credible story or too tell your kids or some girl at Biltmore about how you "saved the world" last July, and for those of you researching or doing whatever else in Charlottesville this summer, we hope that you have gotten to experience the beauty of the city free of petulant college students wearing birkenstocks and blasting Dave Matthews Band 24-7 complaining about how awful it is that their sociology final in three days is worth 20% of their grade and hoping they can get into a law school where they will be guaranteed to to make 200k/year without doing any work. . . . Speaking of which . . .
For those participating in OGI, aim to project more confidence than this.. . . As the time to return to school approaches, we hope to fire things up at here at UVA Law Blog - slowly. We've got all sorts of good stuff planned: some guest posts, some original in depth investigative reporting,some posts designed merely to take up space, and of course full-on coverage of the all-important O-G-I's. Before you class-of-2010-er's get overwhelmed by the number of employers interviewing third-years, and before the class-of-2009 is scrambling to figure out how to pronounce "Fried Frank", "Cravath", and "Debevoise", you might want to check out our aggregate coverage from last year:
Pregame
Fashion Advice
Random OGI Advice (From Other People)
Firm Receptions
The Real Deal
Poll: How's it Going Out There?
OGI, Callbacks, et. al., Make Me a Worse Person (Blame FFJ for the improper use of "et. al.")
How Interviewing for BIGLAW is Just Like DATING
J'Accuse!: Law School, Weekly, Paint Too Rosy an OGI Picture?
The Rescinded Offer Situation, Or, Pondering Whether the NALP Rules Still Apply ITE
What OGI Problems, Part II: Three Jobless 2Ls
What OGI Problems, Part III: Prescreening
About 10 % . . .
Into the Labryinth: Va. L. Wkly. Discusses Hiring, PILA Grants
Liveblog: SBA Town Hall Meeting on Changes to OGI
We'll have some updated advice soon. Soon being relative. In the mean time sit back, enjoy the summer, and try not to forget about us when August rolls around. The pieces of may have changed (i.e. capitalism may have failed us all and as such firm hiring may be dramatically reduced, unfortunately) but the game is the same: A Always B Be C Closing . . . er, we mean, present yourself and your credentials smartly, be professional, and be diligent - no one ever got a job offer by not working and not hustling.
Here's some hints that some people older and wiser than I asked me to pass on,(yes, it's an amalgamation, aren't blogs great?), while you're waiting for the action to start: it applies to 2Ls especially but 3Ls as well:
EITE you * cannot * rely on O[G]I alone to get a job, period. What I mean is, you have to come out of the gate hustling and swinging. Work the connections you have from day one (i.e., pass that resume around to your father's bidness contacts). Start your mass-mail from day one - that means in mid-August because waiting until you've heard back from all your OGI interviews is just too late - it's like if Michael Phelps doggy-paddled for the first half the race and still expected to pull a gold. And at least half of you are at the median or below - which is fine, don't get me wrong - but it just means you're no Michael Phelps and shouldn't expect to doggy-paddle your way to anything; you're going to have to swim fast and hard and not look back.Also, I might add somewhat randomly, Career Services suggested in some of its literature last year that some people need not take all 25 of their possible interviews even if they get them. While that may have been true in year's past, it's not true now: 2Ls, unless you graded on to Va. L. Rev. with room to spare take every interview up to the maximum allow and do your best on each one. Worry about turning down callbacks AFTER you get some solid offers.
Speaking of interviews, bid intelligently on them. Don't waste more than a few bids on firms that have hiring criteria way above what you can bring to the table (and what your career services puts out might not be the best indicator of this - what you need to do is go and talk to the people who actually summered there and see what their credentials were - if it turns out that most of the people there were in the top 10% of the class then chances are you're not going to get a job there - especially in this economy - unless you were in the top 10% as well, even if you do get an interview). At the same time, don't interview in more than 1 or 2 geographic areas if you can; you'll look unfocused and uncommitted. Be sure to work any regional connections you might have, and if you don't have any, apply to markets where the summer classes tend to be larger (think New York City).
Finally, you go to the University of Virginia. Don't forget that, it's probably the most valuable thing you bring to the table.
Wednesday, March 11, 2009
LIVEBLOG: SBA Town Hall Meeting
1:33- Our SBA President Dan welcomes all students and begins with an apology for the poor timing of the meeting. Judging from the amount of students in attendance (around 30), this apology is well grounded. Rest assured fellow students, the minutes of this meeting will be posted on the SBA website and this will not be our only opportunity to have a town hall meeting.
1:38- Dean Lawson announcing plan to have more interview dates in August to insure the ability of the law school to host all firms that want to come interview in August. The addition of these days seems good to me, so long as it doesn't conflict with summer programs.
1:40- Lottery to increase to 50% of firms interview slots, up from 20%. Zounds!
1:42- Targeted training secession on interview process to go over how to dress selves, how not to be embarrassing in interviews. 1Ls- also stay tuned for small section training secessions on Symplicity. Symplicity, not so simple after all. Also, more training sessions? I never really found the other ones very helpful, so fingers crossed.
1:44- First question. What about the 3L interview process, any changes? Dean Lawson doesn't really have an answer to this one, except that there will be future discussions with firms and students.
1:45- President Dan wants more details about the new lottery system. Students will continue to bid on firms and half of every firms' interview slots will be filled by the law school according the highest bidders. There will also be waitlists to opt into, similar to the Special Requests under Case.
1:51- Mandatory limits on number of firm selected interviews? Turns out it is hard to limit pre-selected interviews on the firm side. As for placing limits on the students, someone suggests placing a strict limit on the number of interviews a student signs up for rather than just giving guidelines. Dean Lawson thinks it is about the whole package IN THIS ECONOMY so a strict limit would be unfair to students with good grades that are less personable, etc.
1:57- Dan directs a question to Yared Getchaw about how the changes in hiring will affect public interest jobs. These interviews will still occur during September, the agency slots will be purely on a pre-selected basis.
2:00- New proposed OGI interview schedule.
Week One: Interview preperation on Monday and Tuesday, interviews on Wed, Thurs, Friday.
Week Two: Monday off for Peer Adviser Activities. Interviews Tuesday-Friday. Pow-wows with career services over the weekend.
Week Three: Interviews on Mon, Tues.
2:01- Getting legitimate rather than dismissive lottery interviews requires students to inform themselves about the firms and be smart in choosing their lottery picks.
2:07- Student suggest a student ambassador type system where students are put in touch with older students who had been successful in the past in similar markets/with specific firms.
2:08- Abrupt end to meeting as next round of classes begins. Dan urges us all to contact the SBA with more concerns.
2:12- Final Thoughts
Overall Themes: more meetings/information for 1Ls prior to process, concendsed earlier interview schedule, increased lottery interview slots.
I will leave the town hall meeting slightly more informed and perhaps slightly more hopeful with the prospects of future 2L OGIs. However I did not hear much of anything about how we are addressing the current 2Ls still struggling to secure employment or how we are going to ensure that those 2Ls who are settling for less than ideal positions this summer are going to remedy that next year. But at least change is in the air for current 1Ls.
1:38- Dean Lawson announcing plan to have more interview dates in August to insure the ability of the law school to host all firms that want to come interview in August. The addition of these days seems good to me, so long as it doesn't conflict with summer programs.
1:40- Lottery to increase to 50% of firms interview slots, up from 20%. Zounds!
1:42- Targeted training secession on interview process to go over how to dress selves, how not to be embarrassing in interviews. 1Ls- also stay tuned for small section training secessions on Symplicity. Symplicity, not so simple after all. Also, more training sessions? I never really found the other ones very helpful, so fingers crossed.
1:44- First question. What about the 3L interview process, any changes? Dean Lawson doesn't really have an answer to this one, except that there will be future discussions with firms and students.
1:45- President Dan wants more details about the new lottery system. Students will continue to bid on firms and half of every firms' interview slots will be filled by the law school according the highest bidders. There will also be waitlists to opt into, similar to the Special Requests under Case.
1:51- Mandatory limits on number of firm selected interviews? Turns out it is hard to limit pre-selected interviews on the firm side. As for placing limits on the students, someone suggests placing a strict limit on the number of interviews a student signs up for rather than just giving guidelines. Dean Lawson thinks it is about the whole package IN THIS ECONOMY so a strict limit would be unfair to students with good grades that are less personable, etc.
1:57- Dan directs a question to Yared Getchaw about how the changes in hiring will affect public interest jobs. These interviews will still occur during September, the agency slots will be purely on a pre-selected basis.
2:00- New proposed OGI interview schedule.
Week One: Interview preperation on Monday and Tuesday, interviews on Wed, Thurs, Friday.
Week Two: Monday off for Peer Adviser Activities. Interviews Tuesday-Friday. Pow-wows with career services over the weekend.
Week Three: Interviews on Mon, Tues.
2:01- Getting legitimate rather than dismissive lottery interviews requires students to inform themselves about the firms and be smart in choosing their lottery picks.
2:07- Student suggest a student ambassador type system where students are put in touch with older students who had been successful in the past in similar markets/with specific firms.
2:08- Abrupt end to meeting as next round of classes begins. Dan urges us all to contact the SBA with more concerns.
2:12- Final Thoughts
Overall Themes: more meetings/information for 1Ls prior to process, concendsed earlier interview schedule, increased lottery interview slots.
I will leave the town hall meeting slightly more informed and perhaps slightly more hopeful with the prospects of future 2L OGIs. However I did not hear much of anything about how we are addressing the current 2Ls still struggling to secure employment or how we are going to ensure that those 2Ls who are settling for less than ideal positions this summer are going to remedy that next year. But at least change is in the air for current 1Ls.
Today: LIVEBLOG of Career Services Town Hall
Stuck in class? NO PROBLEM. The UVA Law Blog editors (though not I personally, *tear) bring you - LIVE from WB 126 - minute-by-minute updates of today's 1.30 meeting.
See you then!
Monday, March 09, 2009
Career Services / SBA Town Hall Meeting Wednesday
Got something to say to Career Services? Want to know what the big changes to OGI will be next year? Your chance is this Wednesday at 1.30 in WB 106 - the SBA & Career Services are having a "town hall meeting" where you can ask questions and get some insight into what they have cooked up next year.
Rant: This time is bad. We - like a whole bunch of other people - have class then. Of course, it's hard to schedule around the entire Law School, but we think that for a topic this important the Career Services People should have found a better time. I think more people would be able to come if they had the meeting at something like Tuesday at 5 (basing that off looking at the course enrollments on LawWeb, linked above). Anyway, it's an important event, so maybe your Prof's will understand if you miss class to attend it (since it's directly relavant to what you came to LS for in the first place . . . getting a job).
Rant: This time is bad. We - like a whole bunch of other people - have class then. Of course, it's hard to schedule around the entire Law School, but we think that for a topic this important the Career Services People should have found a better time. I think more people would be able to come if they had the meeting at something like Tuesday at 5 (basing that off looking at the course enrollments on LawWeb, linked above). Anyway, it's an important event, so maybe your Prof's will understand if you miss class to attend it (since it's directly relavant to what you came to LS for in the first place . . . getting a job).
Friday, February 20, 2009
"Into The Labryinth": Virginia Law Weekly Discusses Hiring, PILA Grants
The stare conveyed a sense of despair and frustration with more volume than the simple words that accompanied it. “I just want a job,” the second-year student said.Sadly, this student is not alone. While On-Grounds Interviews (OGIs) yet again proved productive for many, the tenor of this academic year has resonated with concern regarding prospects for employment. As they attempt to surmount market-wide obstacles, students have turned to the Law School’s primary resources for assistance: the Office of Career Services and the Public Service Center. In both of these offices, however, the staff is being asked to respond to a demand for help that mounts with each passing day in a worsening economy, while those same economic constraints limit the resources available to provide such services. This prompts the question: Is enough being done? More importantly: What is enough?
Read more. The article reports that 89% of the class of 2009 have secured full-time employment, but what about summer employment for the class of 2010? The article also notes that career services was somewhat blindsided by the crash in the economy - that Career Services went into the process without knowing the "extent to which things would be changing." The article goes on to explain how - ITE - the typical post OGI strategies of mail-merging weren't going to work:
PILA: The same issue also reports that - not unrelatedly - competition for PILA grants is up:
Following advice to send mass mail, one student “sent 135 e-mails and received no callbacks or interviews.” . . . [T]he typical strategies that worked in years past, such as mass mailings, did not work this year, although [according to Career Services] “we didn’t know until after the fact.”It then discusses how leanly staffed UVA Law's Career Services is compared to other top-14 Law Schools, and suggest that this could be part of the problem:
. . . This is the highest student-to-counselor ratio among the top 15 law schools (as ranked by U.S. News & World Report). Only Georgetown, which is probably the largest school on the list, has a ratio near that of the Law School; even then, counselors see on average 30 fewer students at the Washington, D.C. school. At most schools on the list, the ratio approaches 200-to-1, with some like Stanford below 150-to-1. [Career Services] conceded, “We are leanly staffed compared to a lot of schools.”Personally, we disagree. To my knowledge, there aren't scores of students complaining that they have a lack of access to Career Services, and besides one or two OGI scheduling mix-ups (the fault of the outdated CASE software which they have now gotten rid of in favor of Simplicity), we have never had any serious problem with them - and certainly don't argue that further CS staff (likely funded by the ever-pernicious tuition increase!) is the answer. We do agree, on the other hand, that innovative methods would be helpful:
Some have noted that Career Services should focus outside of the large firms in the mega-markets of New York and Washington, D.C. One student noted that Career Services focuses heavily on general skills, such as how to write a resume or cover letter, and suggested that the office’s efforts might be better expended if they were concentrated on job hunting techniques and interview skills.To be fair, CS does already offer some good information on targeting smaller firms and/or secondary markets - the problem was more timing, advising students to take advantage of that information before it was too late. And of course, we feel that the article would have been more complete with some discussion of prescreening. But otherwise, outstanding work.
PILA: The same issue also reports that - not unrelatedly - competition for PILA grants is up:
Last year, scores of first-year students were disappointed when they did not receive grants from the Public Interest Law Association (PILA) to fund their summer public interest work. Many students thought—based on the success that the organization had in disbursing grants to all students who had applied the previous year—that such grants would be guaranteed.
This year, PILA is facing a higher number of applicants than ever. Although . . . PILA does not disclose the number of applicants for fellowships, [its President] said that this year, “PILA has received a far higher number of applications than in any prior year. While we wish we could fund every applicant who secures a qualifying public sector job, unfortunately the number of students we can fund is limited by the amount of money that we are able to fundraise over the course of the year.”
Alas, these are the times that try men's souls.
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